Every seller wants to have meaningful sales connections with their buyers, but it’s clear from the way sales is traditionally done that very few sellers really know how to pull it off. Deb Calvert has written a new book, “Stop Selling and Start Leading” that reveals many points of powerfully insightful data, taken from a study focused on the 30 primary characteristics of leadership. Her application of those characteristics to the sales process is not only ingenious, it also reveals what sellers are doing wrong, what buyers really want from those who are on the other side of the sales relationship, and how powerful selling can happen once sellers stop selling in begin leading. You don’t want to miss this conversation.
Buyers don’t believe the message until they first believe the messenger
Sales connections are about more than simply setting appointments and running through a sales presentation. It’s about building trust, a phrase we are hearing more and more these days. But do you really know what it means to build trust? More importantly, do you know how to build it? Deb Calvert says that buyers don’t believe anything you have to say to them about your product or service until they first believe in you. They have to see, demonstrated in your behavior, that you are person who can be trusted. What kinds of behavior is Deb talking about? Listen to this episode of In The Arena to find out – and learn how to change the way you sell in order to build greater trust with your buyers.
33% of buyers say the salespeople they deal with don’t come across as credible
Much of the research that Deb and her team did in preparation for her book focused on the experiences buyers had with those who sold to them. In many cases, these were relationships that were already established between buyer and seller – yet 33% of buyers said that the sales people they deal with regularly don’t come across as credible or trustworthy. What does that say about the way sales professionals are going about their work? More importantly, what does it say about the ways we can improve what we do to cause trust to be built from the outset? Deb’s insights into this issue of credibility and trust are incredibly helpful for salespeople who are willing to do the work it takes to apply what she has learned. The good news is this, none of it is hard. It just has to be done.
Sales connections happen through two-way dialogue, not an old-fashioned sales presentation
One of the things that buyers dread the most is the sales presentation. That’s because it often goes into data points and information that isn’t relevant to their situation. It’s kind of like sitting through a timeshare presentation in order to get the free gift, only the buyer doesn’t always walk away with the free gift. Deb’s research revealed that sales connections that matter happen through two-way dialogue, not a sales presentation. Buyers want to know that they are understood and that those selling to them truly have their best interests in mind. If you will apply the simple things Deb shares in her book, “Stop Selling and Start Leading,” your sales will dramatically improve.
Meaningful connections between buyers and sellers still matter
With all the advancements in A.I. and machine learning, there is a lot of hype about whether or not salespeople will really be needed in the future. Both Deb and Anthony believe that the human component of sales will always be in high demand because meaningful sales connections are what build the kind of trust that buyers need to feel. It still matters that there is a person on the other end of a transaction. It still matters that someone with empathy and understanding can approach a buyer’s needs with insight and right applications. As you listen to this conversation you’ll come to realize the truth: meaningful connections in sales still matter and always will.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Who is Deb Calvert?
[1:29] The kind of research Deb did in her decision to write her book
[5:10] The gap between what buyers want to see in their sellers and what exists
[9:51] What does it mean for sellers to model the way?
[14:07] Buyers need sellers to demonstrate that they have THEIR best interest in mind
[15:30] Why salespeople are hesitant about inspiring a shared vision
[20:42] What does it mean to challenge the process?
[22:53] The thing that matters most to buyers is relevant answers in a timely way
[26:30] Meaningful connections between buyers and sellers still matter
There’s only one difference between the hustlers in prisons across the world and you and me… they got caught breaking the law. That probably sounds like an overly dramatic statement to most readers of this blog, but the truth is that it’s the truth. Anthony’s guest on this episode is Cat Hoke, an amazing woman who’s working to see that the hustlers in prison who really want a second chance at life actually get their first chance ever, by rehabilitating and training them to use their natural propensity to hustle in legal ways – like entrepreneurship and business. This is an amazing conversation you’ll be glad you listened to, so be sure you do listen.
Cat Hoke works with EITs, Entrepreneurs in Training who are coming out of incarceration
Most of the people in prisons don’t live with any real sense of hope. When you are serving a life sentence, what is there to hope for? That mindset becomes a chain of defeat that hangs over them and the environment in which they live reminds them how hopeless their situation is every day of their lives. So when Cat Hoke and her team walk into a prison and begin spouting off things about hope and change, it’s a hard sell. But she’s one of the most convincing salespeople you’ll ever meet. Currently, her program, Defy Ventures is serving over 5000 EITs – entrepreneurs in training – and is teaching them not only what it means to hope, but what it means to be free from the chains of prison and emotional bondage. You’ve got to hear Cat’s story, on this episode of In The Arena.
Turning hustlers into Entrepreneurs with only a 3.2% recidivism rate
One of the main problems with the penal system in most countries is that they are not really about rehabilitation, they are only about punishment. The people inside know that and the culture and environment within the walls of the prison show it to be true. But the Defy Ventures team has made a significant difference in many prisons in the United States already. With only a 3.2% recidivism rate (release offenders going back to prison) they are undoubtedly having an impact. You can hear how the Defy team makes such a difference in the lives of people most of society considers beyond redemption, on this episode.
Cat’s father taught what not to be and empowered her in the process
Part of what Cat has come to realize is that the circumstances of her birth are really the only things that kept her off a path that leads to prison. As she’s met more and more of the people who are incarcerated she’s realized that many of them were born into circumstances where it was next to impossible to avoid eventual incarceration. Her father, for example, set her up for success through the things he taught and the intentional care he showed. He wouldn’t allow her to whine or complain and he challenged her with a form of “shark tank” around the dinner table, giving her entrepreneurial or business challenges to figure out. The realization of how much advantage she had compared to many others is what has driven her to a place of compassion rather than criticism. Learn what Cat is doing to help inmates break free of the chains that bind them, on this episode.
Cat helps hustlers face the pain so the past doesn’t repeat itself
Even when many hustlers who wind up in prison get out, they are still in chains. The things that drove them into prison in the first place – hurt, anger, neglect, abandonment – are still with them. The Defy Ventures program is not only about teaching job skills and business savvy, it’s about taking those individuals who have been incarcerated to a place where healing can begin. It’s a tough road that even the toughest people don’t easily walk, but when the journey is complete it’s a liberating thing – in more ways than one. Join Anthony and Cat as they discuss the impact Defy Ventures is having, on this episode of In The Arena.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Cat Hoke: On a mission to transform hustlers into entrepreneurs
[2:20] The exercise every volunteer and inmate has to go through at Cat’s events
[9:10] How Cat discovered her own lack of compassion for those incarcerated
[12:10] The role of luck and the circumstances of a person’s birth as they relate to a criminal history
[16:30] Cat’s father taught her not to be these things… and empowered her in the process
[22:10] The letter Cat sent to 7 people confessing her own sins – and the responses she received
[33:38] A book so powerful it will stir up emotions you don’t know are there
[40:26] Hope is everything. If you don’t have it, you give up or kill yourself
[44:12] How 5000 people are learning to have hope in spite of being incarcerated
[48:15] At defy, the commitment is to “love hard” and hold people accountable
Outbound sales and prospecting are the sales approaches that most people shudder to think of. Dialing the phone, cold calling, getting past the gatekeepers – it’s enough to discourage anyone if you don’t approach it in the right way. This conversation with Chris Beall of Connect and Sell is powerful simply because it reveals some of the basics of why we go about sales that way in the first place. The numbers don’t lie, and Chris is definitely one to know the numbers. But more than knowing them, he’s effective at interpreting what they reveal about needed sales process improvements. If you want to learn how to do outbound sales and prospecting better than you ever have before, Chris is the guy to listen to. Get a feel for the kinds of things he has to share, on this episode.
In outbound sales, we should be paying attention to the metric of “the day”
There are thousands of metrics you could track when it comes to outbound sales. But Chris says that the most important metric is the metric of each day. In his mind, the strongest thing you can do is focus on doing the most you can in each day, even if that means taking some of the things you meant to do tomorrow into today’s workload. If you do that consistently, magic happens in your business, partially because you get more done per unit than you are spending. These are the kinds of observations Chris makes that are simple, yet so powerful. Take the time to listen to what he shares in our conversation, it will help you improve your outbound sales game.
The first 8 to 10 seconds of an outbound sales call is the most important
One of the things I was curious to know from Chris’s experience was whether or not people who make more outbound sales calls show improvement with the more calls they make. He said that’s not necessarily the case, but what does demonstrate improvement is when those making outbound calls are coached about what they say and how they say it, especially within the first eight to ten seconds of a call. Coaching is vital to enhance effectiveness because it’s through good coaching from an experienced salesperson that an ineffective caller can learn to express comfortable confidence that leads to effectiveness. Learn what Chris means by that on this episode of in the arena.
Outbound salespeople who secure more meetings tend to produce more referrals
Referrals are not something we typically think of as being directly connected to outbound sales. But the statistics show that there is a direct correlation. The outbound salespeople who are able to secure more meetings are also the ones who produce more referrals. What’s the connection? It likely that the confidence and demeanor those sales professionals have that enables them to secure the meetings in the first place, is also what enables them to get referrals. Chris Beall has great insights into this phenomenon and explains what salespeople can do to increase their ability in both of those areas. You’ll want to hear this episode.
Outbound sales reps should have as many conversations as possible
The goal of outbound sales calls is to schedule appointments with prospects. It’s as simple as that. So outbound sales reps who are doing a good job should be scheduling as many conversations as possible. Chris and the team at Connect and Sell are all about making that scheduling process simpler and easier, and their implementation of technology to make it happen is revolutionary. Find out how 80 sales calls can be made, four actual conversations can happen, and appointments can be set – all within 1 hour. I told you it was revolutionary. Be sure you listen.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Why I invited Chris Beall to be on the podcast
[2:47] The metrics Chris tracks and why he finds them interesting
[7:46] The exhaust from today’s efforts are likely to produce opportunities tomorrow
[10:58] The metric of dials per day: a production metric that has more to do with luck
[15:13] Meetings as a metric of effectiveness
[19:34] Referral metrics: The strongest producers of meetings are the strongest producers of referrals
[23:45] Outbound follow up calls produce two times as much as first contacts
[25:20] 30 minutes, 80 dials, 4 conversations, .5 appointments = Incredibly high ROI
[31:30] The Outbound Conference: How the conference exceeded Chris’ expectations
We’ve all experienced those crazy scenarios when something goes viral – in the old days, we said it was extremely popular or a tremendous hit. We’re talking about things like Cabbage Patch Kids, Beanie Babies, or hit albums on the Billboard Chart. What makes them go viral? What makes them so popular? Derek Thompson says the answers to those questions usually surprise people. That’s because there is more of a science behind it than you would think. This episode is extremely practical for salespeople because it demonstrates the human tendencies that contribute to popularity and Derek is very skilled at applying it to the sales world. You’ll want to hear this episode.
Sales professionals need to understand the “Mere Exposure” effect: The mere exposure of any stimulus biases us toward that thing
Have you ever wondered why some of the bigger brands plaster their logo across a billboard with no particular “ask?” It’s because of something called the “Mere Exposure Effect.” Science has proven that when a person, in this case, a consumer, sees the same company in a positive light repeatedly over time, then when they notice that brand on the shelf at the grocery store their purchasing decision is much easier because they’ve become familiar with the brand. The mere exposure they’ve had to it makes it trustworthy in their eyes. Derek Thompson unpacks these kinds of scientific findings and applies them to the sales world for us, on this episode.
When people are interacting with a product or service they want an element of familiarity, in spite of looking for something new
Everyone seems to be interested in the latest movie or the newest gadget. There’s something about new products and services that intrigues us. But Derek Thompson says that the science demonstrates that though people are indeed looking for something new almost all of the time they are also more likely to adopt the new thing if it has an element of familiarity to it. Steve Jobs knew this when he created the first desktop computer. He said that it had to say “Hello” and it had to have a face. By designing his computers with those features, the Apple Computer Company was a novelty that was also familiar to users – and the computers sold like hotcakes. You won’t want to miss Derrick’s explanation of how this principle applies to your role as a salesperson. Be sure you listen.
To sell something surprising, make it familiar. To sell something familiar, make it surprising
We are all looking for something new and novel to demonstrate to her friends and family. It makes us feel important, like someone on the cutting edge. But very few of us are actually bold enough and brave enough to dive completely into the unknown. We want at least a little bit of the experience to be familiar. That phenomenon is backed up by science and on this episode of In The Arena, Derek Thompson tells us why.
Many things we think have gone viral were actually intentionally spread by “dark broadcasters”
When we talk about something going viral we usually mean that it became popular suddenly and for little visible reason. But Derek Thompson says that almost everything that goes viral was intentionally positioned to do so. Yes, the thing in question has to be interesting or intriguing to the general public, but it also has to be put in a place where it can be distributed and found. Derek called these places the “dark broadcasters” of the internet and says they could be news sites, celebrity Twitter accounts, or any number of things. In this episode, we talk about what it means for something to go viral and how we can apply the concept to sales.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] A great conversation with a guy who has studied the science of popularity
[2:33] Why Derek fell in love with the idea of understanding popularity and pop culture
[5:05] The “Mere Exposure” effect and why it matters when it comes to popularity
[12:40] Fluency makes us want things that are familiar
[15:03] How do we predict hits? An example from Spotify’s “Discover Weekly”
[19:28] Neophilia: people love new things, but they’re torn between them and familiar things
[24:28] The story of Bill Haley’s “Rock Around The Clock” and how it became a hit
[30:49] The intentionality of “going viral” – how it happens, and how it doesn’t happen
Nobody in the online marketing space or sales world needs an introduction to Seth Godin. Seth has become synonymous with content marketing and the new approach to customer attraction he calls permission marketing. He believes that because of the negative perceptions people have about marketing and sales and because of how people function these days, no entrepreneur or business should be out chasing customers in that old-style way that causes pressure and discomfort. In this great conversation, Seth discusses why customer attraction is so powerful and explains what brands can do to create a great customer attraction approach, which solves every other problem by default.
If you have customer attraction you don’t need to raise capital and technology will never be an issue
Imagine if your company was one of those brands that seemed to automatically attract customers because of your culture, your values, or your vibe. What would that do for your opportunities and potential for success? Seth Godin insists that client attraction is THE thing – it’s what makes every company that is successful, successful and it’s what makes every other problem in business less of a problem. In this conversation Seth and Anthony discuss some of the things required to attract customers like that, so don’t miss this sage advice from two guys who have put a lot of thought into the issue.
Brand loyalty is declining because brands have not kept their part of the bargain ~ Seth Godin
There is a decent amount of talk in marketing and sales circles about the decline of brand loyalty. When asked whether it’s true, Seth Godin says that it is and that the main cause is that brands have not kept their part of the bargain. It’s easy to SAY your brand will be something specific for your customers but to actually pull it off requires a kind of thought, intentionality, and consistency that most brand leaders have not dedicated enough time to. Seth has some insight into how that sort of backsliding on your brand promise happens and what you can do to regain ground, so be sure you hear this episode of In The Arena.
Failure isn’t that big of a deal, so don’t take yourself so seriously. If you are honest and do good work, you’ll get another chance ~ Seth Godin
Most of us regret our failures on some level. But the failure doesn’t have to be the final word if we are about more than success or failure. Seth Godin says that the entrepreneurs and creators that truly make a difference are the ones who are honest and do good work that truly benefits people. A person or brand with that kind of character deeply ingrained will always recover from mistakes and find new opportunities on the other side. That’s the reality he’s seen over and over as he’s worked with founders, creators, and students and is a place from which you can draw hope the next time you fail.
Why Seth Godin doesn’t like to talk about his writing process
As one who writes every day, Anthony was especially curious how Seth Godin, another person who writes every day and has written many books, approaches writing as a practice. Seth said that he feels that revealing his writing approach would not serve others well simply because we all tend to take on the practices of those we admire rather than discover and develop our own unique approach that fits the way we are wired. In his mind, anyone who can verbally communicate can write. The challenge is learning to write the way you speak – naturally, with emphasis and passion, and with clarity that is truly helpful to those listening (reading). Though Seth didn’t reveal his “magic formula” for effective and prolific writing, what he does share about the realities of writing is very helpful. Don’t miss it.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Why Seth Godin needs no introduction… here he is
[2:13] Seth’s description of himself during high school
[3:11] Why Seth doesn’t like to talk about his writing process
[5:55] The point Seth is driving home when telling his personal failure stories
[10:01] Why are entrepreneurs drawn to the transactional side instead of the exceptional side?
[12:50] How customer attraction trumps everything for entrepreneurs
[16:09] Why brand loyalty is declining and how small companies can capitalize on the trend
[20:03] Seth’s explanation of the mindset young people need to have in our present day
[24:45] How to help people do something – get them started with small things
If you want to learn how to engage in productive thinking, Tim Hurson is the guy to teach you how. Tim is the author of a book called “Think Better: An Innovator’s Guide to Productive Thinking” and this conversation is part of the celebration of the tenth anniversary of that book, which you can pick it up right now on Amazon. Anthony admits that this interview starts off a little weird for him because he and Tim have been acquainted with each other for a long time and they belong to a peer group where they communicate with each other often, but before this conversation, they’d never spoken face to face. It’s also a little weird because Anthony’s book, “The Lost Art of Closing” cites one of Tim’s books “Never Be Closing” on the cover flap as a bad idea. But in spite of that difference, which turns out not to be that much of a difference, Tim and Anthony are completely aligned on many things when it comes to life and sales. You’ll enjoy this stimulating conversation with Tim about how you can think more productively and therefore be more successful, so be sure you take the time to listen.
How you as a salesperson can get the absolute right to the next deal with the person you just closed
This conversation starts out with a bit of banter between Anthony and his guest, Tim Hurson, over what Tim was trying to say when he wrote a book called “Never Be Closing.” Tim’s point was that thinking of things as “closed” could lead you to think that the deal is done, when it’s really only the beginning. What you’re actually doing is you’re gaining commitments, you’re gaining friends, you’re establishing relationships that you don’t want to end – which will lead not just to the first sale but to the second sale and all the sales beyond that. That’s where the conventional idea of closing is “Finish the deal” but where Tim says he never wants to finish the deal. He wants to open more deals. It’s what he calls having an absolute right to the next deal you sell in such a way that you don’t ever have to sell to that person again. Find out how you can build THOSE kinds of relationships, on this episode.
You’ve got to listen to this episode if you want to understand the way of thinking that enables you to be more creative, productive, and effective
Tim Hurson used to go around the country putting on seminars and giving speeches, and when he did he’d often meet people on planes. It was the typical situation where you start talking to somebody, asking, “What do you do?” and as soon as somebody asked Tim what he did he would say things like, “You know, I teach people how to think creatively.” They’d immediately go back to their magazine. But one day, completely on a whim, Tim answered the question by saying, “I teach people how to think more productively.” The difference in the response he got was nothing short of amazing. Suddenly he had made a connection with the person he was talking to because what was important to them was to be productive. Tim’s come to believe that there’s a way of thinking that actually allows you to learn better, to plan better, to solve problems better, to do better, and ultimately to BE better as a human being. Find out what that way of thinking is on this episode of In The Arena.
Productive thinking has many enemies. You’ve got to clearly know what they are and how to overcome them
The second chapter of Tim Hurson’s book, “Think Better” speaks to the things that prevent us from thinking productively. He points out three of them: Monkey Mind, Gator Brain, and The Elephants Tether. In this conversation with Anthony, Tim walks through two of those three enemies to productive thinking, explaining how they work in the brain, why they happen, and what you can do to overcome them. This is a section you’ll relate to entirely. Anthony says the ability to master these enemies is the difference between consistently working in a distracted state and beginning to work in a productive state of mind. Don’t miss out on this practical conversation.
Most people are too quick to answer the questions that come up in life. Staying in the question longer could lead to greater solutions. Here’s how
Throughout life and business, we have questions to answer, dilemmas or obstacles to overcome. One of the highest human instincts is to find answers to questions – but often we rush to the answer too quickly. Tim Hurson says we don’t stay in the question long enough, which means we don’t do a good job of problem-solving. The reason we do this is that we’re really uncomfortable with not knowing, we’re uncomfortable with not nailing down things. We want to attribute a reason to things and the sooner we can do that the more quickly we’ll get back to a place of comfort – whether the answer we’ve come up with is the best answer or not. Discover how you can unlock untapped aspects of your productivity and creativity by staying in the question longer. Tim Hurson calls it “Productive Thinking” and you can learn all about it on this episode.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Why this conversation with Tim Hurson starts off a bit weird for Anthony
[2:08] The confusion between “Always be closing” and “Never be closing”
[5:48] Why productive thinking and creative problem solving are so vital
[8:59] The things that keep us from thinking productively
[16:56] The difference between reproductive thinking and productive thinking
[22:28] Do you “stay in the question” long enough? Why should you?
[26:04] Tim’s best advice for those who want to begin thinking more productively
It should not come as a surprise that some of the most important things in life are the most basic. Civility is one of those things that is essential to maintaining and building great relationships with others but is often cast aside for the sake of attaining goals at the expense of those relationships. In this conversation, Anthony talks with Christine Porath, author of the new book “Mastering Civility.” Her insights into the human condition and the things that drive us to be not only uncivil but downright petty reveal the foundational things that we need to come to grips with in order to begin building healthy company cultures rather than toxic ones.
The fundamentals of civility are so basic but also so seldom done
No one would argue against civility being one of the foundational practices that undergird healthy human relationships. Yet, is one of the things that is most quickly cast aside when it comes to dealing with others in hierarchical structures like companies and chains of command. Christine Porath is convinced that a return to civility will enable toxic cultures to be made healthy and poor performing teams be made into record-breakers. This conversation is full of insight so be sure you take the time to listen.
Learning to listen is one of the best ways to chip away at a toxic culture
All of us have a cell phone. We leave it sitting on the desk during meetings and we even take it to the bathroom with us. We think of it as a tool but it often becomes a distraction that keeps us from truly listening to the people we meet face-to-face every day. Christine Porath points out how new habits – like removing our cell phone from the desk – can help us listen in ways that begin to chip away at the toxic cultures within our companies and organizations. Find out how Kristine suggest we go about making these kinds of fundamental changes, on this episode of in the arena.
Connection has to come first before effective leadership can happen
Effective leadership is a goal for most CEOs and managers, but it can seem very elusive and difficult to attain. Christine Porath says that effective leadership hinges on personal connection much more than it does leadership techniques or principles. Her conviction is that those who learn to connect with the people they lead will be much more effective in their leadership, and research is bearing out that conviction. Christine shares basic steps toward greater connection with the people around us in this conversation with Anthony.
Why we don’t give others the benefit of the doubt but always give ourselves the benefit of the doubt
You may or may not have noticed it, but one of the behaviors that almost every human being is guilty of is giving the benefit of the doubt to ourselves but not giving the benefit of the doubt to others. At the tail end of this conversation, Anthony and his guest, Christine Porath talk about how to overcome the unconscious stereotypes and judgments we make about people without knowing all the facts, and the benefits that a “benefit of the doubt” mindset can have in building a company culture that is sympathetic and supportive of the people in it.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Why Anthony invited Christine to be on the show to talk about her book, “Mastering Civility”
[2:40] The personal experiences that pushed Christine to write about civility
[4:04] What makes for a toxic work environment and what impact does it have?
[9:34] Everyone is watching the leader to know how to behave within the organization
[11:13] The fundamentals of civility that are basic, but not done
[15:01] How warmth and competence are foundational to leading people
[20:31] Judge not: What it means to overcome your own biases and how it increases civility
[26:01] Why we assume people do not have good intention and what we should do instead
Many who listen to this podcast are eager to master the things that will move their career or business forward, things like sales and marketing. But mastering marketing and sales is not something that is easy or that happens overnight. Anthony’s guest today, Perry Marshall is one of the people has taken the time and put in the effort to become a master at marketing. His name is synonymous with success when it comes to direct mail, email marketing, and pay per click advertising. On this episode of In The Arena you will hear Anthony’s stimulating conversation with Perry, where Perry describes how he came to discover the application of the 80/20 rule to marketing and sales.
If you only have so much time to learn so many things, why not learn the things that will make the most difference, like mastering marketing?
The bright shiny object syndrome is alive and well. We see it every day on social media and in the advertisements that come our way. Perry Marshall is committed to avoiding that sort of an approach to marketing and instead loves to teach people how to master those things that will give them the greatest results. That means sales, and that means marketing. In this conversation, Perry describes how scientific principles regarding fractals and probabilities demonstrate the kinds of things that need to be learned and implemented in order for marketing to be mastered. It’s a deep conversation, but one you will value for a long time, so take the time to listen.
Why engineering is the ideal education for anyone who wants to go into marketing or sales
Perry Marshall earned a degree in the field of engineering. He’s not the kind of guy you would expect to be a leading internet marketer, but he is. He says that the education he received in engineering equipped him better for the marketing business he is now enjoying than anything he could imagine. In this conversation, you will hear his explanation of how engineering and marketing operate according to the same principles and how his ability to view marketing through an engineering lens has enabled him to become a leader in the industry. Perry is a fascinating guy who has lots of great things to share, so make sure you listen.
How a journey into the supposed science behind evolution led to an in-depth look at how successful marketing really works
The story of how Perry Marshall got from being an engineer to an internet marketer is filled with all kinds of twists and turns that could not have been predicted. One of those includes a debate he was having with his brother about whether or not evolutionary theory as it is typically presented, is true. Perry didn’t believe it was and set out to dig deep into it to see if his hunch was right. What he discovered was not only how false and misleading much of this supposed science out there actually is, but also how the truth of how science works applies across the board in many areas of study, including the mastery of marketing. This episode is a wide-ranging conversation but it is one that you will want to listen to again and again.
A 100-year-old rule for marketing – RFM: Recency, Frequency, Money – the formula for online advertising
In this conversation, Anthony asks Perry Marshall for one piece of advice for those who are considering pay per click advertising as a way to generate leads and make sales. Perry points to a 100-year-old marketing and sales principle that he refers to as RFM. Those letters stand for recency, frequency, and money. In his mind, it is the best formula for discovering where to invest your limited funds for the biggest return on that investment. You can hear his entire explanation of how RFM works as well as many other helpful topics, on this episode of In The Arena.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] Why Anthony didn’t expect the kind of conversation he had with Perry on this episode.
[1:45] Perry’s background in engineering and why he believes that his education translates well into sales and marketing.
[6:35] Why Perry wrote his book, “Evolution 2.0”
[12:51] How the sales/marketing process relates to Perry’s studies about evolution
[20:22] The hopes Perry had in writing his book, “80/20 Sales and Marketing”
[25:16] Applying the 80/20 rule to marketing
[31:01] Effective marketing on the internet these days – Perry’s view
[37:20] Advice for those thinking of advertising on search engines or social media
[43:10] Anthony’s 80/20 rule about what books to read – and Perry’s lengthy response
One of the most influential books in Anthony’s life in recent years has been Donald Miller’s, “ A Million Miles in a Thousand Years.” Since the publication of that book, Donald has written another, this time oriented toward business. In this conversation, Anthony chats with Donald about his newest book, “Building a Storybrand” in an effort to unpack exactly what it means to be a Storybrand, how it impacts the way a company relates to its prospects and customers, and the way it leads to success like nothing else.
Building a Storybrand requires that you focus on your customer’s story, not yours
Many companies position their marketing around the benefits and features of their product or service. But companies that understand what it means to be a Storybrand take another approach. They focus on their customer’s journey, the story that is happening in the lives of those they serve. They do so in an effort to not only connect with their customers on a personal level but also to express that they understand them and care about the challenges they face in life. It’s at that point that they have become empathetic in their customer’s eyes, and as a result become a brand the customer is eager to follow. Find out more about how you can position your company and your sales endeavors around this concept of being a Storybrand.
The customer is the hero of the story. Your brand isn’t. Companies that get that and communicate it effectively are poised for success
In this conversation, Anthony and his guests, Donald Miller highlight a number of examples of companies that have effectively made their customer the hero of the story. It may sound like an odd approach but it has resulted in amazing brand loyalty and sales for the companies that get it right. Donald Miller explains what it means to be a Storybrand, how companies can move in that direction, and why communicating in a way that demonstrates empathy for the customer is powerful over the long haul. Don’t miss this episode.
People don’t buy the best products and services, they buy the ones they can understand the fastest
One of the most important aspects of marketing that applies to business, politics, or any endeavor that is trying to affect popular opinion, is that in order for a message to be communicated effectively it has to be communicated in a way that enables the listener to understand it with the least amount of effort. In this conersation, Donald Miller points out how President Donald Trump did that effectively in his election campaign and how many brands are doing the same thing to great success. It’s an art form as much as it is a tactic and on this episode of In The Arena, Donald explains how to do it.
Brands that participate in their customer’s transformation achieve enormous success in the marketplace
Every sales professional desires to be part of a company that achieves enormous success in their Marketplace. It’s one of the signs of personal achievement that we all strive for. The brands that accomplish that to the greatest degree are the ones that participate in the transformation their customers experience that comes from using their products or services. What does it mean to actually participate in that transformation? On this episode, Donald Miller highlights the difference between participation and observation, and gives some practical tips about how to become a Storybrand, a company that focuses on the customer’s story to build brand loyalty.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] The impact Donald’s book “A Million Miles in a Thousand Years” has had on Anthony and why it’s so powerful
[3:19] Why Donald chose to write a business book and how he came to do it
[6:08] The premise that the customer is the hero, not your brand – why it matters
[10:02] What are we trying to do by branding with stories in the first place
[16:43} Serving customers as a guide in their own story
[22:45] What is an aspirational identity and why is it important?
[27:30] Why the U.S. is the place with a greater focus on personal improvement
[32:10] How you can get Donald’s free bonus after purchasing the book
If you’ve followed Anthony’s writing and work for any time at all you know how fascinated he is with the impact mindset has on success in sales. So it makes perfect sense that when he saw a book titled, “Psyched Up: How the Science of Mental Preparation Can Help You Succeed,” he had to read it. He was so impressed with the book he invited the author Daniel McGinn to be his guest on this episode of In The Arena. Anthony and Daniel talk about performance rituals, emotional preparation, the impact of music on motivation, and much more as it relates to sales success. It’s a fascinating conversation you’ll enjoy immensely.
Feeling nervous is natural. This conversation will help you know what to do with those feelings.
We’ve all heard of the “fight or flight” instinct, it’s part of our biological wiring that fuels us to take action. Though the things we face today aren’t typically considered “dangerous” as they were back in the day when that response was first needed, they are still many times high-stakes events where the nervousness we feel is similar. On this episode, Daniel McGinn tells how the nervous feelings we face can actually be a helpful thing for performance if we know how to deal with them rightly. He also talks about why the most common piece of advice we receive when we’re feeling nervous is actually the exact opposite of what we should do.
Instead of trying to get rid of nerves we need to learn how to channel them toward success.
“Hey, calm down. Relax. Breathe.” It’s common advice to hear when you’re nervous but Daniel McGinn says it’s the wrong advice. It’s physiologically impossible to calm down the hormonal surges going on at a time when we are about to perform. Instead of fighting an uphill battle it’s better to learn strategies for focusing that energy to better use than fear and anxiety. In this conversation Anthony digs into how exactly to do that with author Daniel McGinn, so don’t miss it.
Do pre-performance rituals legitimately work?
From athletes, to musicians, to sales professionals, many people use a pre-performance routine to get themselves ready for their particular “go time.” What makes up those rituals is as unique as the individuals who devise them, but Daniel McGinn says they are proven to be helpful. Anthony and Dan talk about how varied pre-performance rituals can be effective even when they vary so widely in terms of what is actually being done, what it has to do with mental focus and determination, and how each person’s ability to deal with anxiety is the most determinative factor in their performance.
Is music really helpful to prepare for go-time?
It’s fascinating how wired human beings are for music. There’s something about the melodies, harmonies, and rhythms that can change our mood, set us up for suggestion, or prepare us for a big day. Daniel McGinn, author of “Psyched Up” says there is no denying that music is a powerful tool in preparing for performance or high-stakes events and he and Anthony discuss how their favorite tunes may not be the same as those chosen by others, and why that is. You’ll enjoy this wrap-up to the conversation.
Outline of this great episode
[0:44] How the mental game impacts sales success, and today’s guest Daniel McGinn.
[1:40] What happened to compel Daniel to write his book, “Psyched Up?”
[3:44] The 5 P ritual one neurosurgeon uses to optimize his performance.
[7:25] The power of purpose behind great endeavors.
[9:42] Examining the different types of anxiety that manifest in various people.
[12:20] Do people who are anxious simply need to calm down?
[15:01] How one semester long course teaches students to deal with audition anxiety.
[17:20] The effectiveness of pre-performance routines: are they legitimate?
[22:16] What are positive and negative contagions?
[26:54] Why the pep talk is not really what we think it is supposed to be.