DER SPIEGEL: Minister Safadi, the civil war in Syria has cost hundreds of thousands of lives, more than half of the population has been displaced and 90 percent of the Syrian people now live below the poverty line. Why did the Arab League decide to re-invite Syrian dictator Bashar Assad despite the fact that he hasn't met any of the international community's demands?

Ayman Safadi: The Syrian crisis has been ongoing for 12 years. It caused tremendous suffering to the Syrian people and a serious threat to regional and global security. We, as a bordering country with Syria, are suffering tremendously from that conflict as well: We have 1.3 million Syrians in Jordan, and only 10 percent live in refugee camps. Fifty percent are under 15 years old. We give them full access to our schools. We have issued 320,000 work permits to Syrians against a backdrop of 24 percent unemployment. We cannot afford the status quo. To that end, we produced a Jordanian initiative to solve the crisis on a step by step basis. We are seeking a political solution that ends the suffering of the Syrians, consistent with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2254.

DER SPIEGEL: Assad can sell his readmission to the Arab League as a step toward normalization.

Safadi: The situation will not return to normal, effectively, without serious tangible steps. We coordinated our initiative with our partners in the United States and Europe. Their position is clear: Sanctions will continue, and reconstruction money will not flow unless the Syrian government engages earnestly in a process that will gradually address all aspects of the crisis.

DER SPIEGEL: You met Assad in Damascus in February. Does he show any sign of responsibility for the disaster he has brought over Syria?

Safadi: I went to see President Assad in the aftermath of the earthquake in the Turkish-Syrian border region. The meeting was very frank. We focused on the future. He showed a willingness to engage in efforts to solve the crisis. It was a beginning. We talked about cross-border humanitarian help, accounting for missing people and creating conditions conducive to the return of refugees under United Nations supervision.

DER SPIEGEL: Are you calling for more realpolitik in the Syria conflict?

Safadi: What's the alternative? Everyone agrees that there is no military solution to the crisis. We have to talk. Engagement does not mean endorsement. There are 3.5 million Syrians who do not go to school. Should we lose another generation? It was hopeless people who joined the Islamic State terror organization. The status quo is making the situation worse for all, mainly the Syrian people.

DER SPIEGEL: Did you talk to Assad about the drug industry, which has become one of the main sources of income for the Syrian regime?

Safadi: We have clearly discussed the danger of drug smuggling operations into Jordan.

DER SPIEGEL: The Jordanian air force reportedly killed a known drug dealer in Syria recently. Was this attack coordinated with Russia?

Safadi: Without commenting on that, we will do whatever it takes to protect our national security. These drug operations are huge. Some of our soldiers were killed by drug dealers. The smugglers are extremely well equipped and supported …

DER SPIEGEL: ... for example, by Iran and its proxy Hezbollah.

Safadi: The smugglers have drones, night vision equipment and heavy weapons. We will do what it takes to stop them, including military action against them inside Syria.

DER SPIEGEL: Was the recent air strike coordinated with the Russians?

Safadi: I can only say: We have not discussed any military operations with Russia.

DER SPIEGEL: But you're talking to the Russians. You met with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Safadi: Russia is on our borders. It is present in Syria. To be honest: Russia in Syria is a stabilizing factor compared to the alternative and the chaos it would lead to.

DER SPIEGEL: Is that the reason why you hardly mention Russia as the aggressor in the war against Ukraine?

Safadi: No. Our voting pattern in the UN is clear. We have an occupation next door in the West Bank. So, where is our credibility if we do not maintain the same approach that we pursue? We urge respect for the UN charter and rule-based international law, and we are against the acquisition of territory by force. The sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine must be respected. That is Jordan's unwavering position.

DER SPIEGEL: Russia is being joined in the Middle East by another major power. Do you see the China-brokered rapprochement between Saudi Arabia and Iran as a positive development?

Safadi: We want good relations with Iran. We have to address all reasons of conflict including (Iran's) interventionism in the region. That is why we support the deal that was reached by Iran and Saudi Arabia.

DER SPIEGEL: Do you welcome China's engagement in the region?

Safadi: China has a lot of strong economic relations with some Arab countries, although not much with Jordan, we are a very small economy. And we traditionally maintain a strategic relationship with the United States and Europe. And these relationships remain solid.

DER SPIEGEL: Last week, you visited Berlin to attend a meeting of the "Munich Group" comprised of Egypt, France, Germany and Jordan. Does the group really believe it can reanimate the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians?

Safadi: The Munich Group started out in 2020 at a very difficult time. There was no other effort to address the extremely important issue of peacemaking in the region, and we moved international attention back to this oldest conflict in the region. In 2020, we faced a danger of Israeli plans to confiscate 30 percent of the West Bank by then-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The Munich Group played a central role in standing up to that decision. It reflects our collective commitment to achieve just peace.

DER SPIEGEL: Now, Netanyahu is back, not with formal annexation plans, but with an extreme right-wing government claiming that "the Jewish people have an exclusive right to all the land."

Safadi: The Munich group is even more relevant today. It can play a role because it consists of two very influential European countries, Germany and France, and two Arab countries that were the first to have peace agreements with Israel. Together, we must work together to move toward the two-state solution.

DER SPIEGEL: Do you really still believe in the two-state solution?

Safadi: The two-state solution has been dangerously compromised. Israeli unilateral measures are undermining the viability of this solution, with the expansion of settlements and confiscation of land. The alternative to the two-state solution is a one-state reality. And that would be an ugly reality because it would mean apartheid, a situation in which about 50 percent of the population would be denied democratic rights.

DER SPIEGEL: Germany has always been very reluctant to play a bigger role as a mediator between Israel and the Palestinians. Should the German government change its attitude?

Safadi: Yes. Germany is a major global power. It has excellent relations with us and other Arab countries – and also with Israel. That could be utilized to solve this conflict.

DER SPIEGEL: Do you have the impression that German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock is willing to play a bigger role in solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Safadi: She has been very engaged. The convening of the Munich Group in Berlin was an indication that Germany and its foreign minister want to play that role. We talk quite often. Of course, we understand that Europe is focusing on Ukraine given that it is in the neighborhood. But for Jordan, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is in our direct neighborhood. With the Munich Group, we have tried to accelerate a process. Many times, we invited both Israeli and Palestinian foreign ministers to come, but, unfortunately, the Israelis refused to engage.

DER SPIEGEL: Your country also initiated the "Aqaba Process" in the Jordanian port city of the same name on the Red Sea. The initiative was launched in 2015 to enable regional and international actors to exchange ideas on fighting terrorism. In February, Israel, the Palestinians, Jordan, Egypt and the U.S. met.

Safadi: We haven't seen Israelis and Palestinian sit at the same table for a long time. Aqaba achieved that with a regional and international presence represented by Jordan, Egypt and the U.S. In the Aqaba and Sharm el-Sheikh joint communiques, the parties committed to working together to end unilateral measures that undermine the prospects for a just and lasting peace. We are seeking a three- to six-month period of calm, during which there should be confidence-building measures. Israel committed to respect the historic and legal status quo of the Christian and Muslim holy places in Jerusalem. As a political product, this was important. The challenge, of course, is in implementation.

DER SPIEGEL: The calm didn't last long. Palestinian terrorist organizations launched attacks from the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Israeli settlers carried out arson attacks in the Palestinian town of Huwara, more Palestinian attacks followed and Israel responded with military operations in Palestinian towns.

Safadi: We've worked very hard in Aqaba to ensure that during Ramadan, we do not witness the same level of violence as we have seen before. There was violence, but it could have been worse. And this is due to our engagement. We told Israel not to storm the Haram al-Sharif (Ed's note: the Arabic name for the Temple Mount) and to let the Jordanian Islamic Waqf, which is responsible for holy sites, manage their affairs. But Israel decided to storm the Haram, and the small number of the unarmed guards of the Waqf couldn't do anything in this situation. We later succeeded, together with the U.S., in convincing Israel not to storm the Haram again. Then we restored the calm.

DER SPIEGEL: The Palestinian Authority has lost control of major West Bank cities, and Israel launched a military operation to capture or kill terrorists. Can you understand that?

Safadi: This issue was the subject of a lot of discussions. The more Israeli security operations we see, the worse the situation is getting. Look at the number of Palestinian people killed this year. It is double the number of those killed last year. That should lead to the question: Is this approach working? It is not working, it only makes things worse.

DER SPIEGEL: You expect Israel not to react to terrorist attacks?

Safadi: When we create a political and economic horizon, I think the security situation will improve. A lot of young Palestinians have lost hope and take things into their own hands. The victims of the absence of such a political horizon and the deteriorating economic conditions over the past years was the the Palestinian Authority (PA). If it collapses, we're looking at a nightmare scenario. The Israelis will then have to go back to running schools and hospitals and manage the lives of Palestinians. That means a recipe for escalation.

DER SPIEGEL: Of course, a possible collapse of the Palestinian Authority would have grave consequences. But President Mahmoud Abbas has been in office for 13 years without any elections and has lost a lot of credibility.

Safadi: We support the convening of elections. We support the renewal of Palestinian government structures. I do not, for even a second, question the danger inherent in the continued erosion of the credibility and ability of the PA to do something. But what would happen if Hamas won the elections? What would the international community do then? Does Israel really want the Palestinians to have elections? Why has the PA been weakened? It is because of the absence of political horizons and pressure on the Palestinians. The Palestinian people want peace and live in hope. The occupation denies them that and the PA falls victim to this despair.