michaelpianko

I rescheduled my trip to Mexico for 15 nights in August-September. This time I am starting in Mexico City, then Puebla, then spending 4 nights in Oaxaca city last. A pat generic confirmation message on booking, from my hotel, includes "We also offer tours and experiences... You can make reservations directly at reception: Route: Hierve el agua, Mitla, Teotitlán Del Valle, Mezcal factory and Tule tree. (Full day: $500 pesos); Route: Monte Alban, San Bartolo Coyotepec, Arrazola Xoxo. (full day: $300 pesos).

I don't drink alcohol and the manufacture of alcoholic drinks doesn't interest me. I don't have a strong opinion about rug and pottery workshops but I would be as happy if I skipped the workshops and I feel like outdoor scenery would be most memorable and if this is reasonable or possible I would like to stroll down some paths at Hierve el Agua and see the landscape well.

Should I just put up with wasting time on mezcal and/or workshops, for the sake of guided tour(s) so that I would have an "easier" time getting to Mitla and Hierve el Agua and /or Monte Alban? Or would it be easy enough to see these 3 sites (I know there are other sites you may have mentioned that would be in the scope of my interest and I want to fit in the main sites for sure and the extra sites only if there is time and if it will logistically work) on my own traveling in collective taxis and/or buses?

Have any of you gone to these three sites and/or other minor sites, without renting a can and without the guided tours?

I am NOT going to rent a car on this trip (yes I have a valid Michigan drivers license and I rented a car twice so far, in California and in Florida).

mlgb

Since you already asked this question at least twice (and received a nice response from progol) I'm not surprised there are no new replies.

Revised supposed itinerary

mlgb

Regarding getting to Monte Alban, several people in this thread addressed your question, including some cost information.
Mexico city-Oaxaca solo trip

Don't expect any different responses other than the prices of everything may have increased. Taxis come and drop people off at the top and you will be able to negotiate a return with your basic Spanish if you go that route. You can also take the less reliable and often late van that others had recommended in that thread. It will not include any guiding and you can even find a listing for it on Viator. However I would be concerned in your case that you might have difficulty finding the office and freaking out if you don't see the van on time.
Mexico city-Oaxaca solo trip

michaelpianko

Thanks for your input.

I was looking for an answer similar to "yes you are right, don't waste your time at a mezcal business," or "No, you are stupid if you try going on day or part day trips from Oaxaca city without a guided tour. Just take a guided tour and just put up with the workshops and mezcal-making place!"

Yeah I re-read my other threads. The hotel may be able to help; otherwise my guidebook says that there are collective taxis starting from Central de Abastos de Oaxaca market; other opinions say that you can take a 2nd class bus to the town of Mitla, from the 2nd class bus station, or flag one to pick you up on the road Periférico or by a stadium, probably by 190 and Estadio Eduardo Vasconcelos stadium east of the ADO bus station, and then from the archaeological site or nearby you can get a collective taxi to Hierve el Agua; although there is a chance the collective taxi's will take a long time to leave because the drivers won't want to leave until all their seats are filled.

Christina

I don't understand the antipathy to guided tours. I mean I sort of understand they do some things you aren't interested in, it's the same way with me. I'm not remotely interested in the alcohol stuff either, nor the workshops as I am not a big shopper and already own so many souvenirs like that, I don't want any more. And if I do, I want to shop on my own free time in the city market, not waste time on an excursion. But for convenience, I put up with them, as well as cost, I guess. Unlike you perhaps, I enjoy meeting some other people on the trip also, and enjoy it. I take guided tours in Spanish sometimes in Mexico, though, so they are mostly Mexican tourists.

I also understand that these kind of stopovers are kickbacks probably, or at least they expect the tourists to buy stuff, and is important to their local economy,

There are some tours that aren't as full of that stuff as others, so maybe look around. What your hotel offers probably won't be them.
Here is one on Viator for example that only does some handicraft stuff, doesn't sound too bad, I'd do it.

https://www.viator.com/tours/Oaxaca-...50491-279814P5

Now if money is no object, look at www.toursbylocals.com
I think you will find more what you want, and most I saw did speak English, Spanish, and some Zapotec. But they cost about $300-450 for a day tour I guess, as it appears they are private tours, just you/your group.
like this one
https://www.toursbylocals.com/Monte-...a-tour-private

I do not think using public transportation is an option. Yes, you can do it with a lot of effort (collectivos) but you may be bouncing around in the back of a pickup truck, seriously. And it could be very unsafe.

First, you can take a bus to Mitla, from there a camioneta (pickup truck) to Hierve el Aqua and that's the more dangerous one. The bus to Mitla is near the baseball stadium in Oaxaca. there is no bus to Hierve del Aqua from Oaxaca. That is called a colectivfo but it's a truck.

sounds like you read this, here is another take on that which sounds useful.

https://www.laidbacktrip.com/posts/h...el-agua-mexico

I do things like that alone in some places, but that wouldn't be one of them, in Mexico, I only do things on my own within the same city by bus, etc. Unless I"m just taking the long-distance bus to stay in another city, of course. I might if there is a specific easy route to some tourist site and a direct bus/colectivo, like maybe Playa del Carmen to Tulum or something.

crellston

"I don't understand the antipathy to guided tours. " I am not a fan of guided tours, I get bored to tears by most guides but when I do I just wander off and do my own thing. No one forces you to listen. As it happens I found the day tour from Oaxaca to be exceptionally useful just for visiting the various locations which would have been very time consuming by public transport or very expensive by taxi or private tour. I vowed it more as a convoluted bus service that I didn't have to organise myself rather than a guided tour

My wife wrote a post for our blog https://accidentalnomads.com/2019/03/06/oaxaca/. which has a lot of photos of the places we visited.

Even if one does not drink alcohol, I find it odd to dismiss one of Mexico's most important industries/export as a waste of time. I do drink alcohol but cant say I had a particular interest in Mezcal production before I went but we spent an hour at the Mezcal place and I found it fascinating and learnt a lot (and developed a taste for Mezca)l. If one has deep moral beliefs re alcoho, l then fine don't go but don't dismiss something you haven't done as a waste of time. The best travel companion is an open mind..

michaelpianko

"The bus to Mitla is near the baseball stadium in Oaxaca. "

It looks like it is not necessary to flag down a bus near the baseball stadium, or on a road. Instead it looks like you can get on the bus at an2nd class bus station, possibly next to or near the Centro de Abasto market area. I will see if the hotel staff know better. If I am going to take the bus, I would rather get on at a station. It looks like there are private taxis and/or collective taxis that are enclosed vehicles; I am sure it is not necessary to ride in the bed of a pickup truck. 600 (six hundred) pesos for a taxi from Mitla to Hierve el Agua is acceptable.

I won't know for sure whether it is possible to travel to Mitla and/or Hierve el Agua, until after I complete the trip. I don't drink any amount of any alcohol and the stopping at a mezcal manufacturing place/mezcal sampling would be a waste of time.

Fra_Diavolo

I think you'll find you waste more than an hour using public transportation. You needn't drink mezcal at the stop -- you can still enjoy the slice of orange dipped in chili, salt and ground worm.

mlgb

LOL...

I doubt he can eat any insects.

bald0ne

Dejavu all over again. Poster asks for advice & input from experienced Fodorites that know his areas of interest well, if not intimately so. Certainly far better than he does. Gets said advice. Ignores said advice. Both times. Wearisome.
A bit more input to be ignored. Central de Abastos is on the opposite end of the city as the baseball stadium. Mezcal production included in some tours isnt about drinking. Mezcal production in Oaxaca, while not of Pre-Columbian origin in the state, is every bit as important to the state's (as well as the country's) current culture as all of its other attractions. Here I concur with Crellston.
Ground worm salt I imagine goes well with sardines & saltines. Chapulines taste like bacon bits with a touch of line & chili.

MmePerdu

I’ve been trying to think how to say visiting a mezcal production, especially small traditional ones, is cultural, in no way a booze fest, in a way that might get through to himself but gave up. Thinking of the old saying, don’t confuse him with the facts, his mind is made up.

michaelpianko

As for where to board a bus or taxi colectivo to Mitla, from Azul Cielo Hostel, Estadio Eduardo Vasconcelos is approximately 1.4 miles walking distance; Central de Abasto is 1.2 miles walking distance with the bus stations nearby being closer or further depending on where I could get on a bus to Mitla. Or maybe I could take a taxi in Oaxaca because I wouldn't want to be too worn out before I even arrive at the sights outside Oaxaca. I don't see how trying to catch the bus outside the stadium is an advantage over getting on at the beginning of the route. The tour arranged by the hotel that is "Monte Alban, San Bartolo Coyotepec, Arrazola Xoxo. (full day: $300 pesos)" might be ok. But an hour at a mezcal factory on this tour, "Hierve el agua, Mitla, Teotitlán Del Valle, Mezcal factory and Tule tree. (Full day: $500 pesos)" would feel like a slow waste of time. Yeah I realize that a lot of average tourists would find seeing how Mezcal is made and trying it sampling, delightful.

crellston

Going back to your original question

"Should I just put up with wasting time on mezcal and/or workshops, for the sake of guided tour(s) so that I would have an "easier" time "

I think the consensus here, from those "average tourists" many of whom have actually done that trip and travelled extensively in Mexico is yes, you should. However, you clearly set on doing your own thing regardless so why ask for advice only to ignore it? It is wasting everyone’s time including your own.

mlgb

You don't need a tour for Monte Alban. The two transportation options (Taxi and shuttle van) have been explained to you on two threads already. But do whatever you want.

progol

Frankly, the OP has gotten so much good advice, information and suggestions here with little or no acknowledgement or appreciation of the efforts people have made on his behalf to help him figure out what has been an incredibly difficult task.

At this point, I wish him the best (but am still amazed that he is asking for help yet doesn’t pay attention, really, to any of it).

Signed,
An Average Tourist

ekscrunchy

I never saw earlier posts by this person but I can only offer this small bit of advice, based on many trips to Mexico over many decades:

Why is the choice only guided tours or public transportation?

Why not hire a taxi driver to take you to the places YOU want to see. Aftr having visited many alcohol production facilities from the towns of Tequila, Reims, and Jerez to the Burgundy and Loire region to producers in Sicily, I am not too interested in visiting these places any longer. So why take a guided tour? Talk to a few taxi drivers and compare prices after giving them an idea of where you DO want to visit. Or just ask here is anyone has used a local driver. I would never take a tour from a company like Viatour, (first of all, very pricey and the charge is per person, unlike a private driver) but that's my own prejudice. I'd rather go alone or with my travel companion. Prices should be pretty low. Check with your hotel, too; they may know local drivers who speak English if you do not speak Spanish. Lots of locals will speak English after having stints in the USA; many Mexicans are now returning home rather than live the uncertain life of the undocumented in the US.

DO NOT RENT A CAR, especially with your anxiety level....hire a driver (just read another of your posts so I now have a clearer picture)

I ALWAYS eat street food in Mexico. But that's me, and since this is a first trip for you, you might stay away from that but food in restaurants is FINE. Listen do you know how many people reports getting stomach sick in Paris after eating shellfish???? More than I ever heard about getting sick in Mexico. My Dad always ate street food wherever we traveled, even in India. His idea was that you develop tolerance for new foods the more you sample them..who knows if he was right or not but we always had a blast when traveling together to "exotic" places, as well as to Mexico, Guatemala, etc...
I know many Mexicans who hate spicy foods, and not all of the food there is spicy....as another poster said here, above.

I've not been to Oaxaca in about 8 years but more recently spent about 12 days or so in Merida and for many of those days we used a wonderful driver who spoke perfect English and whose prices were very, very reasonable. Much more interesting for me to have one-on-one contact rather than be on a bus with other tourists who might not share your own interests....but my tastes might differ a lot from your own; I have been to Mexico more times than I can count and probably have visited most areas of the country except, maybe, Durango and Tamaulipas states and probably a few others.

Do you speak any Spanish?

Me, I love the food markets, both within Oaxaca city and in towns nearby. The Tlacolula Sunday market is THE one to visit, as is the Abastos, on the fringe of Oaxaca city. And the visits to Teotitlan and the home of a carpet weaver was fascinating to me..you learn about the natural dyes from plants, you visit their house, see the weaving process, and view the most beautiful carpets at very reasonable prices. The pottery, especially the black creations from SB Coyotepec....I have a big collection in my home and never tire of looking at thse beautiful pieces.

Are you interested in local foods? Mole? Chocolate? What ARE your interests and why did you choose Oaxaca in the first place?

Where are you staying?

michaelpianko

Thanks for all your input. I was trying to avoid feeling guilty for not going on a part or full day guided tour. I am going to spend 4 nights in Azul Cielo in Oaxaca: I arrive on a Wednesday, probably on a bus. My flights back to Detroit leave from Oaxaca. My (maladaptive) influences are: feeling like the essence of a coutry has to do with the remains of defunct civilizations or tribes or cultures, my mom who yelled that travel is dangerous but then switched to insisting that if I am traveling I need to sign up for a whole trip guided tour, and I know perfectly well that this shouldn't be relevant but maybe it is useful to confirm that other people do not share my mom's attitudes; yes shockingly, I was originally planning this trip for my birthday, the age right after 39; my flights were cancelled and I already got a refund and rescheduled. ...

But I know I will encounter pieces of contemporary Mexico and maybe not everything I see has to be old. I am reminded of the time I drove to Ohio and strolled down the trails in the Hocking Hills area. Yes I have a valid Michigan drivers license but my preference is to avoid renting a car in Mexico given that it seems like I can take a bus, taxi, and/or taxi collectivo. I don't want to say that the workshops are bad, but I feel like the outdoor scenery would be much more memorable to me. Not to sound ornery or holier-than-though but I don't consume alcohol and the manufacture of it does not sound the least bit interesting to me. Other interests include art museums, historic buildings, landmarks, parks, maybe just the experience of seeing a strange place. I don't usually like to sit for a more than a 20 minutes at a time unless I have bought tickets to a show that looks appealing. This is a solo trip - I know I don't have to justify what I do to anybody and there will be no travel companions to please or placate. I have taken 6 solo trips to Europe. Imwent to Spain once, for 14 nights.

My first language is English. I have been teaching teach myself some Spanish. My plan is to keep quiet most of the time but to say a few sentences in Spanish when useful, to sound smart. I

mlgb

I don't know why you feel the need to "keep quiet most of the time"? Mexicans are friendly and you might consider that interacting with the locals is another way to get to know a country. Vendors and those in hospitality often welcome the chance to have a conversation in English. Spanish you really need is to use is to greet anyone you interact with first before asking for anything , say please and thank you. Memorizing numbers is also helpful. If you ask for directions in Spanish you may not understand the replies anyways. Probably better to make sure you do have a working cell phone with SIM card instead, and know how to use Gooogle Maps for walking directions.

For Mexico City you've already been advised multiple times to learn how to use Uber. I strongly recommend (again) that you put the app on your cellphone and use it once before you leave. Advice which I imagine you will continue to ignore. PS I don't need a reply repeating again your one history with Uber when you didn't call it yourself and wound up paying they driver in cash. That's not the way to use in Mexico City or Puebla.